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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: And We Bid You Goodnight

This deeply spiritual , Christian song spanned most of GD's career , 3 - 16 - 68 (?) to 9 - 26 - 91 , with a 756 show gap in the middle . It is a traditional song with Bahamian roots . Joesph Spence and the Pindar Family are credited with influencing the GD's style of this song .

This is an excellent overview of the song ,

http://www.whitegum.com/introjs.htm?/songfile/ANDWEBID.HTM

Here is GD in '89 ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROPcZ8S_nwE

and David Byrne ( definitely worth a listen ),

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgE8x6Hqags&;feature=related

The cut from , The Music Never Stopped: Roots of GD , w/ the Pindar Family & Joe Spence is the best . Live Dead may have the best GD one .

I have often wondered why this blatantly Christian song made it into their repertoire . It is like Comes A Time in its directness . No multi-directional wording here . Who wanted it in the songbook ? But then again , a dissection of Alabama -> GSET , for example , will have Biblical references all over the place . Many GD songs do .

edit - And just to make the cynics bring up some of their breakfast ( or dinner ) , I sung this song when I put my children to sleep when they where little . Anyone else ?

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-12 13:29:23

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 6:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Micah--are you telling me the great "spiritual vs religion per se" debate was before your time? Someone will provide the link, or you can look it up, but I can summarize, and since I am writing this little history, it will reflect my take on it:

1) "spirituality" does not necessarily = "belief in God/standard religious viewpt"

2) the many overt religious tunes were possibly of interest to the band members from a spiritual but not organized religion perspective, and probably had more to do with the folk song/blue grass background of the boys than direct interest on their part in organized religion (certainly), though to varying degrees ind's in the band may have been "spiritual").

I know others view it differently, but I could have seen any number of atheistic bands doing those tunes without thinking twice...

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 7:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I think last time we had this debate, someone pointed out (or I hope they did), that we really can't read too much into "spiritual" lyrics; if we applied the same reasoning to all the GD lyrics, we'd get nowhere. Did Bobby sing Me and My Uncle nine thousand times because he wanted to promote the murder of cowboys or the murder of uncles? Well, I don't think they sang about Jesus loving you best because they believed in (or wanted to get others to believe in) Jesus as savior. I don't know what any of them believe personally - the hints they've given over the years are often vaguely spiritual or New Agey - but it's just a song.

Bid You Goodnight is an amazing song. I love it; I actually love gospel music, and I'm a hardened atheist.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Aug 12, 2010 9:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Another example: Was Bobby really promoting statutory rape with his "girl that's just 14" in Mexicali, or was he just embellishing a good story with an example of how low this character had fallen?

I had a friend who was disturbed that Jerry liked to sing Friend of the Devil so much, it always cracked me up.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-08-12 16:13:48

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 12, 2010 8:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

almost as bad - larceny, revenge and murder in Jack Straw...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Aug 12, 2010 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Bobby didn't have much choice, Good Morning Little Schoolgirl was already taken.


Perhaps that't another thread: Do bands singing songs with questionable sexual morals really believe in that message? If so, I've got a rather troubling amount of deviants on my iPod.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Aug 12, 2010 10:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

brings to my mind the 11/8/69 performance, where pig substitutes "13" for "17" in the closing line...

*shudder*

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Oh, dear.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 9:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

LOL, well, rock and roll really is as debauched as our parents said it is.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Songs can be taken out of the any religious tradition , and be sung simply as songs .
I believe I did miss the great debate . I hope it had more light then heat . There is no denying that Hunter used the Bible as a literary reference point in many of his lyrics . To fully understand the Western Tradition in the arts , knowledge of the Bible is key , regardless of anyone's personal beliefs . It's better then a left hand monkey wrench .


This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-12 14:20:43

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 8:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Right; as those that have chimed in above reflect, and you as well, viewing it (gospel heritage, bible, etc.) as a great literary source of inspiration of the human condition, this does not necessarily require a belief in God, religion, etc., etc.

As you can guess, the great debate dissolved into attempts to provide citations supporting or refuting the basic premise: Was Jerry religious?

My take on all the quotes was that he was "spiritual"; I also found that is a word I define very differently, and not necessarily "right", relative to many others on the other side of this debate at the Forum.

I view it in a whacky, New Age, California-esque fashion in which someone like my dear departed mother was very spiritual, always interested in developing her "spirit" with meditation, self exploration, embracing all the newest universal examinations and farcical trends, BUT was nonetheless an avowed atheist. Growing up in CA in the 60s this was the norm: reject org religion, BUT try to find something to replace it while in essence living as a secular humanist (to put it in the vernacular of today)...borrowing all sorts of "advice on how to live", perhaps even as a "Christ-like" individual, while staunchly opposing all the failed and deeply flawed org religion approachs (in the view of those at the time).

Again, just summarizing a purely off the charts, singular outlook common enough in N Cal, but perhaps far from the dictionary defn of "spiritual".

I think Jerry fell into this whacky camp of ind's that loved the path to enlightment while never really settling on ONE solution/approach/etc. People dug up some really amusing quotes of his that suggested he believed in cosmic connectivity of a sort that sounded much more like an acid trip than a well thought out notion of spirituality.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I am happy I missed that thread re: Garcia . How can anyone know what is inside someone's head unless they directly ask them . And that won't bring you all the way , b/c they could be lying or confused . A thread on hearsay , based on hearsay , based on more hearsay won't buy you a cuppa coffee . Maybe in Nepal , though . ;)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Oh, I disagree...I am confident you and I, and certainly Rob and I can ask one another what we think about religion and expect a reasonable answer...just like any topic, right? I agree that none of us has the ANSWER but we certainly can know what we think about the big questions.

Not sure what're driving at here...if you find the old thread, the quotes are hilarious: the person asks Jerry pt blank about this and that, and he answers in a thoughtful fashion about this and that universal connection, blah, blah, blah...I think he comes off as very sincere and intelligent, just inclined to whackiness like so many that have rejected traditional org religion and are searching for some meaning...

I know that may sound patronizing, if not supercilious, and it may have only applied to Jerry on the day in question, as he certainly was a deep thinker/wide reader at some level, but I think the case is quite strong that he was a defn New Ager, wandering and exploring all the possibilities which were limitless in his universe (esp the West Coast).

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

That is a good point about the three individuals you mention . I already have a good sense of what the answers might be , and I would trust that . I already do .

JG came to a thread ? Rejoice ! Spiritualism of the 19th century is coming back . When do you guys do that ?

I am reticent to import anything onto Garcia . I think that is my main point . He was a Great Artist who touched us all deeply ( or the Muse through him ). We don't know , and I guess I am tired of guessing .

btw - my 2 youngest are preparing to go up Marye's Heights with their foam samurai swords ( as guns ). They have the right music now , so they are sure they will get to the wall .

edit - I tried to put up a photo of the 69th , but no . :(

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-12 19:04:10

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Wait a minute--are saying you don't trust written and video taped and tape recorded interviews?

I never said he came to a thread; I said he was interviewed.

Why are you even bothering if you have that take on what is necessary for communication? Well, of course, I know you don't...you read history, and it's far more removed than an interview.

I think something else is eating at you...go ahead, spill it; or we'll never get further.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I'm trying to be careful and am stumbling over my own words . Also , I am not giving proper attention to postings . My fault . I am surprised how nervous I have gotten as the day has gone on about this post . No , that not it . I'm just obfuscating more . Personally , frankly , it's this ,

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/hartfordcourant/obituary.aspx?n=scott-graves&;pid=144637517&fhid=11934

Lisa is one of Deb's gal pals , and Scott was E & M 's baseball coach every year . It has me back on my feet with a cotton ball head . He died at work in a crane accident Tuesday .

edit - the link is somewhat working . His name was Scott Graves .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-12 19:38:19

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Poster: high flow Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Sorry to hear that news. Unexpected death too early can certainly leave one reaching for answers.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

This is thew first time I have been alone , since Tuesday . Now that I don't have to put the front up for the kids , I am back on my heels . Shaky . It's all so fragile .

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

My sincere apologies...didn't mean to push you toward this, as I was thinking it was more along the lines of "what did Jerry really believe" and so forth.

Hang in there; times like these do indeed try men (and women), but what you endure is often a measure of what you are in the end.

And like Ringlee O says, Box of Rain is all

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Thanks WT . I'm going to get offline . I can not write properly .

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Poster: user unknown Date: Aug 12, 2010 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

condolences to the family

positive thoughts, vibes and prayers out to all touched by this tragedy

Death leaves a heartache no one can heal
Love leaves a memory no one can steal
~From a headstone in Ireland

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I can't get the link to work but I gather a friend of yours died? I'm so sorry.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

It's the randomness , he was 40 , with 6 kids . I was never friends w/ Scott , but he was the baseball coach for my kids the last several years . Fall Ball was about to start . Lisa is very good friends with Deb. They , she , live(s) less then a mile from us . You say g'bye to your S/O in the morning and then you have a nightmare for dinner . This is the first time my youngest two have gone through grief .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 1:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Oh, I'm sorry, that's awful.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Well yeah but I think he was also sometimes having a harmless laugh at the interviewer's expense.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 8:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I know what you and Arb are getting at, but with Jerry, he was often, in the early yrs, IMHO, almost the definition of earnest. He had a child like exuberance and sincerity that comes thru as if he is enjoying the exchange and the opportunity to explore the "big questions" as much as the interviewer is getting it all down...I think that often in the early days, Jerry could very much be taken at his word. But, I will admit I often am quite gullible.

EG, in the widely circulated 1967 interview ("...move the human race one step forward...")* he's sincere, as are the exchanges recounted in Signpost to New Space in 71, whereas with Hugh Hefner in 69 he appears more tongue in cheek...



*doesn't this just reek with affection and ooze sentimentality? Whether he was religious, atheist, or naive as they come, you gotta love the guy that says this:

Jerry Garcia, 1967: "What we're thinking about is a peaceful planet. We're not thinking of anything else. We're not thinking about any kind of power. We're not thinking about any of those kinds of struggles. We're not thinking about revolution or war or any of that. We would all like to be able to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life and think about moving the whole human race ahead a step."


Hey! I used a footnote in a post...cool.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Aug 12, 2010 3:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

"but I think he was also sometimes having a harmless laugh at the interviewer's expense."

this is my take as well; while an interview certainly gives one a good 'feel' for a person's thoughts, beliefs, facts of their life, opinions about things, etc., there is always the 'in-the-spotlight' aspect, and for celebrities, the 'role' or 'stage' or 'public' persona aspect as well; caution is required when deciphering interviews for reliable data

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Poster: buscameby Date: Aug 12, 2010 10:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

and its bigger than a drive in movie OU EEEEEEEEEEE

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Poster: ganges Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I found a couple of quotes. I've always been interested in how "spiritual" the band was, it's an interesting topic, I remember writing a post about it years ago trying to express that, for me they can touch me deep within and connect me to my soul, help me feel the peace (that means being spiritual for me), the music, the lyrics, the way they interact with us/the crowd, the way they talk at times in interviews, this is mainly Jerry but not only. There's no other music that does this in such an intense way for me as GD and JGB, and I've been listening to a lot in the last decades:

“We need magic and bliss, and power and myth, and celebration and religion in our lives and music is a good way to encapsulate a lot of it.”
- Jerry Garcia

from a post by Jerrob Hungar:
"But it was the Dead's spiritual philosophy that also attracted and inspired me. To me, that philosophy embodies such attributes as kindness, compassion, openness, discernment, faith, high ideals, harmony, joy, inner knowledge, intuition, patience, self-responsibility, tolerance, wisdom and a 'gentle love for All That Is'. "

from Dhamma1:
The point of it, much of the time, was to raise people's consciousness and help them see life differently. "People come to be transformed," Mickey said once, "and we transform 'em." They needed to make money, too, of course, to keep the music going, but for most of the people in and around this band, there was a spiritual purpose. It was expressed in the jams, and the electric kool-aid, and the lyrics, and the ways many of them chose to live their lives.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 12, 2010 8:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

A major element of "roots music" are the spiritual/religious songs . The Dead, mindfulness of this pops up from time to time, the recent RT's has "Cold Jordan", and "I Hear a Voice Calling" , for instance . And Jerry's love of gospel music is all over his band's music , though he was definitely agnostic , himself .
Dylan, on his "Theme Time Radio Hour" used to get complaints about his playing music with religious themes , and he would point out you didn't have to believe to be moved by the sincerity, and power of the performances .
WT's point of ,"Spirituality" does not necessarily = "belief in God/standard religious viewport" , I think fits the Dead's approach to this , and their approach to these sort of songs .
You can have overtly spiritual music, like Bach's B minor Mass, or non overtly spiritual music , like Dark Star . To me the 'sent of God ' is in both .

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Poster: buscameby Date: Aug 12, 2010 10:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I also believe that part of their philosophy was to just get people to THINK about the alternatives and see if they could have their own views about all sorts of differing opinions.

Jerry didn't want to give us a opinion to take whole without chewing it and testing it, they were just food for thought, IMHO.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Though of course then you have religious people telling you you can't possibly understand such music if you don't believe.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Yes , you will experience the music differently , if you are a follower of the said religion , or not . But i am not Islamic, but I can enjoy Sufi music ( , etc.).
If there is God, soul, spirit , whatever, I suspect the inner core of where this comes from is relevant to us all ( sounds like George Harrison, or Moody Blues song !).

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Breathe deep the gathering gloom
Watch lights fade from every room
Bedsitter people look back and lament
Another day's useless energy spent

;)

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I have friend who does that poem "Late Lament", in the voice
of Bulwinkle moose . Pretty dam funny !
I am forgiving the of their, at times , hokey pretentiousness,
I always feel their hearts were coming from the right place , and I love their
melodies, and magnificent sound ( kudos to their producer, Tony Clarke ).
One of the often overlooked weird aspects of the Moody Blues , was their
devotion to Timothy Leary, and by association LSD . Not only "Legend of a Mind", but some of the other songs like "Floating" , obstetiously a kiddie song "... the candy stores will be brand new, and you'll buy rock with the moon right through ". (!) .

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 12, 2010 11:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

now I'll have to pull out vinyl, haven't listened to Moody Blues in 35 years. Micah, you must be older than your years.

I do know that I can count the first time I heard Dark Star as a religious experience. Earth moved, and planets realigned.

Suffice it to say that if you were moved by the Tantric Choir, then we could also presume that an Ubangi warrior would be moved by the Hallelujah Chorus. The "religious" experience and music are closely linked, tapping right down to the human soul.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

>i am not Islamic, but I can enjoy Sufi music ( , etc.).

Exactly.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 12, 2010 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I not sure what 'religious people' exactly are Ring , but first and foremost these are songs we are writing about . When I saw the Gyuto Tantric Choir I was transported . I'm not sure where , but it was good . I am not a Buddhist , but I got the mojo of what they were doing . I have a feeling a Buddhist would import more into what the monks were doing , then I . Just as I import certain ideas when I hear songs such as this . I try to be careful everywhere , here , with this subject matter . Always in my head ( when I'm using it ) is to be humble . I have no idea what experiences people are going through , regarding this subject matter .

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

>I not sure what 'religious people' exactly are Ring , but first and foremost these are songs we are writing about .

I just mean, I have had people tell me I can't be (don't deserve to be?) getting any appreciation from, say, Bach or Handel since I don't relate to the religious inspiration behind them.

>When I saw the Gyuto Tantric Choir I was transported .

I don't know what the Gyuto Tantric Choir is, but I guess I'll have to go find out. I get such an education here ...

> I'm not sure where , but it was good . I am not a Buddhist , but I got the mojo of what they were doing .

That's my point exactly.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

It's no secret that Jerry liked hymns and folk tunes, and the little melody behind AWBYGN spawned many a great jam in its own right. One of the band's quintessential jams, imo. (6/6/70, 4/29/71... to many to mention)

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Poster: high flow Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Yes. The instrumental played at the end of GDTRFB is AWBYG. Is it not? I always thought it were.....

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1987-09-18.mtx.hansokolow.96139.flac16

Into that Jimi tune that Bob really likes.

I like the earlier versions, but when I did the old mental playback it was this version. I guess this set wore a deep rut on my brain. Dire's too, but that's not news.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Aug 12, 2010 1:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Dire has a brain?

Holy crap!

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Poster: high flow Date: Aug 12, 2010 2:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Ooh burn! Well played.

If you have not heard "Dirty Deeds Done with Sheep" by the Big Men on Campus, I recommend it.

It's an AC/DC parody.

"Warning signs, electric fences, HIGH VOLTAGE!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCRE9qOgbug

This may be a rerun, but that seems to be theme lately.

This post was modified by high flow on 2010-08-12 21:27:02

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I think we are probably all reading way too much into it. The song literally says "Good night" - I think they just thought it was a cool way to end a show, and they were right. They often sang "Another Saturday night" on Saturday nights - they weren't trying to make a mystical point about Saturday, I don't think.

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Aug 12, 2010 3:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Amen.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Aug 12, 2010 4:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

I never said anything about mysticism. Just pointing out that there were many shows where that melody emerged in the middle of big jams like Alligator and usually kicked off more extended jams. A lot of my favorite shows have AWBYGN jams.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 12, 2010 5:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: And We Bid You Goodnight

Sorry - I wasn't so much replying to your post as to the thread in general at that point, but I guess it read that way, sorry about that.